Title: Fraud Last modified: June 13, 2017 --- # Fraud * [guidog77](https://wordpress.org/support/users/guidog77/) * (@guidog77) * [9 years ago](https://wordpress.org/support/topic/fraud-4/) * I purchased a license a long time ago not knowing it was an automatic renewal. Recently it was renewed for almost $80. I immediately wrote to them telling them that I didn’t know it was on auto payment. They refused to issue a refund. You be the judge. Viewing 11 replies - 1 through 11 (of 11 total) * [Michael Torbert](https://wordpress.org/support/users/hallsofmontezuma/) * (@hallsofmontezuma) * WordPress Virtuoso * [9 years ago](https://wordpress.org/support/topic/fraud-4/#post-9224111) * I’m sorry you’ve had this experience. The product is a subscription. There is no non-auto payment option. PayPal automatically bills each year until the subscription is cancelled. To call this fraud is disingenuous. * Thread Starter [guidog77](https://wordpress.org/support/users/guidog77/) * (@guidog77) * [9 years ago](https://wordpress.org/support/topic/fraud-4/#post-9224130) * Even worst. * “PayPal automatically bills each year until the subscription is cancelled.” * To me this is auto payment. * Regardless, being a subscription that lasts for a year, if I told you the payment was done without me knowing about it, why refuse to give it back? You know I can’t use your product if you return the money and cancel my license. If you don’t want to call this fraud, call it ripoff then. * [Tony Zeoli](https://wordpress.org/support/users/tonyzeoli/) * (@tonyzeoli) * [9 years ago](https://wordpress.org/support/topic/fraud-4/#post-9224228) * I am an AIOSEO Pack user responding to your negative comments about this exceptional plugin and the service and value AIOSEO provides, that help sites like yours or your clients be found in search and potentially generate hundreds to tens of thousands of dollars in revenue – all for $80 a year. * In the past 5 or so years, many WordPress plugin and theme developer began to offer their Pro version subscriptions with auto-renewal. I am a subscriber of around 10 different WordPress theme and plugin developer service, including AIOSEO, Gravity Forms, Gravity Wiz, The Theme Foundry, WPMUDEV, and others. I fully expect my subscriptions to auto-renew until I cancel. The same with my web hosting and my domain name renewals. * I am well aware that my subscription auto renews after 1-year for each of these services. I am also aware that I can contact them for premium support, so I don’t have to use the free support forums on WordPress.org and potentially wait days for an answer. * The value of a pro subscription is that you can get premium support. If you are not aware of this or do not understand the WordPress theme and plugin marketplace, it’s not the plugin developer’s responsibility to educate you more than they are required to do at point of sale and upon renewal. You can always opt out. * If you ignored the reference to auto-renewal at the time you opted-in, I don’t have a good answer for you. This is part and parcel to how WordPress theme and plugin developers can do what they do. There are many people who are happy to pay $80 per year for premium support. That’s usually about 1-hour of a good web developers time. If that doesn’t make it worth the $80, I don’t know what does. Just getting one pro reply in the pro support forum is worth a year’s subscription, because it is opportunity cost. They can’t and shouldn’t provide support to tens of thousands of customers for free. It’s impossible and they have to make a living, just like you and I do. * To call this fraud would be to say that all WordPress theme and plugin developers who sell third party services are fraudulent. WordPress.com auto renews for their subscription services every month. Is WordPress.com fraudulent? No. This is the nature of the business model. - This reply was modified 9 years ago by [Tony Zeoli](https://wordpress.org/support/users/tonyzeoli/). * Thread Starter [guidog77](https://wordpress.org/support/users/guidog77/) * (@guidog77) * [9 years ago](https://wordpress.org/support/topic/fraud-4/#post-9224468) * “I am an AIOSEO Pack user” * LOL * Dozens of times I got into auto renewal subscriptions from different vendors. And I never had a problem getting my money back when I immediately told them I didn’t want to renew. * It’s an annual subscription! If I didn’t use it not even for a minute after the renewal, what’s the harm in doing the right thing and returning the money?! * This isn’t the nature of a business model. This is bad business. Bad karma for you. * [Michael Torbert](https://wordpress.org/support/users/hallsofmontezuma/) * (@hallsofmontezuma) * WordPress Virtuoso * [9 years ago](https://wordpress.org/support/topic/fraud-4/#post-9224502) * Dozens of times? Sounds like you should keep better track of the subscriptions you sign up for. * In reality, we refund with discretion if the customer is actually not using the plugin anymore (sometimes the person is in fact still using it). Unfortunately, since you’re posting anonymously to a message board, I can’t look up your account and verify anything or help you at all. * [Tony Zeoli](https://wordpress.org/support/users/tonyzeoli/) * (@tonyzeoli) * [9 years ago](https://wordpress.org/support/topic/fraud-4/#post-9224815) * You can scoff at my post, but you can also see my full name and avatar, as well as my contributions to the WordPress.org forums since 2005. I have an impeccable reputation in the WordPress community and only conveying to you something you should already know. * I see that you do not identify yourself and you have only been registered in WordPress.com since 2015. You’ve also only have a few topics created and a few replies, as opposed to my over 300 replies and 25+ topics created. * I urge you to educate yourself further on the business models practiced by all 3rd party WordPress theme and plugin developers, instead of being reactionary and getting angry at something you ultimately had control over, but failed to do anything about. * Many of my plugin and theme subscriptions auto-renew. If they didn’t, then every day tens of thousands of users would drop out of the support systems of all of these themes and plugins. Users would have to spend time figuring out which services to renew all the time and plugin and theme developers wouldn’t be able to plan on year over year sales, so that they can ascertain what they can invest in their themes and plugins over the next period. It is the business model of themes and plugins and if you don’t like it, then don’t use them. * From our interaction so far, I get the sense that no one can tell you anything and that you’re always right and everyone else is wrong. I’m sorry you feel so aggrieved, but you have to look at your own actions and ask yourself why you weren’t aware of the nature of how themes and plugins renew subscriptions. They all do it. This is nothing new. If you want a refund, then contact them off the forums and ask them for one. * [shilluminatus](https://wordpress.org/support/users/shilluminatus/) * (@shilluminatus) * [8 years, 11 months ago](https://wordpress.org/support/topic/fraud-4/#post-9312744) * [@guidog77](https://wordpress.org/support/users/guidog77/) I’m not sure what the problem is, just tell paypal is was an unauthorized transaction, and they will reverse it and refund the money. If paypal doesn’t do it, just contact your bank (wherever your paypal account is linked to) and tell them it was an unauthorized transaction. The bank will reject it as fraudulent, which will kick it back to paypal, who will then kick is back to AIOSEO. Super easy. No need to get in an online argument with people who obviously think that the auto-renew scam many US businesses use now to trick you into paying for services you are no longer using is a legitimate way of doing business. * [imhere123](https://wordpress.org/support/users/imhere123/) * (@imhere123) * [8 years, 11 months ago](https://wordpress.org/support/topic/fraud-4/#post-9316851) * guidog77 I just made this account, to respond, i was shocked by this guys response to you..You are in the right. I offer 4 or 5 services that are auto subscriptions. All are monthly and I give them a notification the week before. Ive been making a full time living online for nearly a decade now. I could NEVER imagine doing a yearly subscription, because most people would forget about it. (maybe thats what they are banking on.) * I dont know if they notified you, but for a yearly subscription (which i would never do) I would start notifying them a month out, and send a notification weekly before the funds were deducted. Its EXTREMLY rare id say no to a customer for a refund. Not in a MILLLION years. In fact i dont think ive ever done it in 10 years, (The only possible time i may is if i could see they used my services for say 28 days out of a 30 day month. And then id still probably give them a refund. HAPPILY, I dont ask questions, I dont care. As far as im concerned its not my money. Its only my money, if my customers are happy. * I have no idea what this guy is thinking. I was about to purchase this plugin hence the reason why i was looking up for reviews for those that paid. Im VERY glad I found this post. Ill go with Yoast or another one. Good luck, if you payed via paypal do a refund request, look it up, there is a way you can pretty much guarantee you get a refund. You deserve it, this guy is just being ignorant. - This reply was modified 8 years, 11 months ago by [imhere123](https://wordpress.org/support/users/imhere123/). * Thread Starter [guidog77](https://wordpress.org/support/users/guidog77/) * (@guidog77) * [8 years, 11 months ago](https://wordpress.org/support/topic/fraud-4/#post-9317027) * I made the claim at Paypal the day this guy told me he has a strict non-refund policy. * After 15 days or so, paypal’s answer was: * “After further review of the claim you filed against Michael Torbert LLC, we have determined the issue you have described or the merchandise or service associated with this transaction is not covered by PayPal Purchase Protection. As a result, this case has been closed and we’re unable to take any further action.” * I don’t mind yearly subscriptions. I do mind when, without notification, a payment is taken out of my account; and I do mind that when I asked for a refund the day that happend (this is a yearly subscription!) they refuse to return the money. Plain wrong. * It never happened to me before. Ever. It’s ridiculous. - This reply was modified 8 years, 11 months ago by [guidog77](https://wordpress.org/support/users/guidog77/). - This reply was modified 8 years, 11 months ago by [guidog77](https://wordpress.org/support/users/guidog77/). * Thread Starter [guidog77](https://wordpress.org/support/users/guidog77/) * (@guidog77) * [8 years, 11 months ago](https://wordpress.org/support/topic/fraud-4/#post-9317051) * I just saw Michael Torbert’s message: * “In reality, we refund with discretion if the customer is actually not using the plugin anymore (sometimes the person is in fact still using it). Unfortunately, since you’re posting anonymously to a message board, I can’t look up your account and verify anything or help you at all” * I’m not anonymous here. Regardless, the day I contacted you I sent you my full name, website, phone number, everything. Should I write to you again? * [Johnjohn1963](https://wordpress.org/support/users/johnjohn1963/) * (@johnjohn1963) * [8 years, 7 months ago](https://wordpress.org/support/topic/fraud-4/#post-9594904) * I have included car insurance, and a few others on direct debit. At the bank, you can always remove the direct debits. I only use paypal to pay online to not spend my credit card number too much. Can not delete direct debit on paypal? A question to [@hallsofmontezuma](https://wordpress.org/support/users/hallsofmontezuma/) Can you pay a subscription directly through the bank? I have just looked up at All in One SEO, using another now, and I think after more than two years of fine submissions and photos, I’ll get too little unique visitors. 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