mfmorris
Forum Replies Created
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Forum: Plugins
In reply to: [Easy Forms for Mailchimp] MailChimp roadmap for GDPRHi Kevin,
Re: “What you’re saying is you need a flag or some type of indicator in a MERGE field that marks a user as GDPR-confirmed user. Is that correct?”
Yes. What I currently have (via MC GDPR) is two checkboxes for
– Opted-in Email
– Opted-in Direct Mail(We want to collect both variants of opt-in in one place so that a complete picture of the subscriber’s current contact preferences is stored. MC offer the GDPR checkbox fields as an open-ended list of options, i.e. you can delete or add different contact channels as you wish, e.g. I could have added a checkbox for Telephone except it isn’t relevant for us.)
I will need to email all existing subscribers asking them to state their preferences. MC offer an email template for this, which has a button that links to their hosted “update profile” form.
Assuming a lot of people don’t respond, I’ll then plan to send a second email as a reminder to the non-responders. To do this I need to segment the list according to opt-in responses, therefore I need something that can be used in creating a segment. Rather than a merge field, it should really be a group. (The MC set of opt-in checkboxes seems to act like a group.)
Hopefully this will be a once-off exercise, because new subscribers will have the opt-in boxes available from day one. But it is also essential that a subscriber has the ability to update their preferences later. This is not as simple as unsubscribing, because they might (for example) retain email opt-in but want to delete direct mail opt-in. So it would have to happen via the email link to the MC-hosted “update profile” form rather than unsubscribe. Therefore the opt-in preference boxes MUST be part of the subscriber profile inside MC, so as to be available for editing.
Also there is a clear need to be able to demonstrate subscriber preferences for audit purposes, and we are also obliged legally to give subscribers a copy of their data if they ask for it. I feel that if the opt-in data were held externally to MC it could make these requirements considerably more complicated…
So in answer to “Do you think that (1) storing the confirmation language as a note and (2) storing a flag like “GDPR Confirmed” in a text MERGE field would be sufficient?”:
Basically Yes, but it’s complicated if you want to give users the ability to have several different kinds of opt-in for different communication channels. This implies a group of checkboxes rather than a simple merge field, and the list owner would need to be able to customise the range of choices offered.
I guess you could decide instead to limit the plugin to collecting only “email opt-in consent”. But this is a bit problematic, because if a subscriber wants to update their preferences, they would expect to be presented in their profile with the whole range of things they might have opted into. If they can only see “email”, but say (for example) they have been receiving direct mail and want to opt out, they may begin to distrust the organisation if they can’t see and edit it.
This is “what if” speculation, and I’m not sure how important it is to allow a range of opt-in choices in different checkboxes. However this facility is already provided in the MC fields. So for any organisation employing multiple communication channels, for which consent is separately needed, the question might be “why wouldn’t we use the MC built-in GDPR fields” (instead of the plugin) if they provide this extra functionality…
Forum: Plugins
In reply to: [Easy Forms for Mailchimp] MailChimp roadmap for GDPRRe storing the confirmation language in the Notes field:
I’ve just discovered (by accident) that there can be two sorts of notes. That’s to say, my list profile contains a field ‘Notes’ that I think I must have added as a custom field before becoming aware of the internal “Write a note” field. I guess you are referring to the latter, which seems to generate a series of separate date and timestamped notes.
I can see that the “internal” notes don’t seem to be searchable. That is, you can’t see them in the contacts listing nor use them to segment the list. (So I’m actually glad for my own custom notes field as it is more visible and easier to work with.)
If the “opt in” fields are stored as custom fields in the profile (therefore available for searching and segmenting) I don’t think the “invisibility” of the note should be an issue – but just pointing it out.
For info, I have currently switched to using the hosted MC signup form with GDPR enabled. I need to do this because time is pressing and I must get an email out to existing subscribers asking them to update their opt-in preferences (and allow enough time before 25 May for a reminder email if they don’t respond).
If you manage to create a workable alternative scheme I would certainly consider switching to it in future, provided that there is an easy way to copy the MC opt-in information (now already being collected) into your custom fields. But I would be concerned to look at any implications (for audit trail) of “abandoning” the MC setup…
Forum: Plugins
In reply to: [Easy Forms for Mailchimp] MailChimp roadmap for GDPRI have just enabled MailChimp GDPR fields for my email lists. In the MailChimp Form Builder this shows up as some explanatory text plus a set of checkboxes for different kinds of opt-in (email, direct mail etc.). The set of checkboxes appears to be implemented as a “group-like structure” called “Marketing Permissions”.
When I go into the Easy Forms plugin and try to edit my form, the newly added Marketing Permissions group does not show up in the list of “Interest Groups” available to add to the form. This is consistent with the information above that MailChimp has not made this functionality available via the API.
The post above seems to be suggesting that a way around this could be to add one’s own custom fields (labels and checkboxes) to “mimic” the standard GDPR fields that MailChimp now offers. As custom fields they would of course be available to the plugin. However I see several difficulties with this:
1. The standard MailChimp GDPR offering contains a lot of “boilerplate” text – some of which is editable – in addition to the option checkboxes. As well as the header title, the text stretches to three paragraphs (one before the checkboxes and two afterwards). I am not sure whether this quantity of text (which is in there for legal compliance) could be implemented via a custom group of checkboxes.
2. If custom fields were added, it effectively means that MailChimp’s own GDPR fields should be disabled. Otherwise you might have the possibility of the list being accessed directly via a MailChimp hosted form resulting in some subscribers opting in via the MailChimp fields, while other subscribers opt in via the custom fields. This could create chaos and make segmenting the list a nightmare.
3. Perhaps a small point, but when you come to segment your list the MailChimp GDPR “Marketing Permissions” is listed among the standard “Subscriber Data” set of fields. This is a more obvious, and “official looking”, location for this sort of data compared with a custom group.
4. Finally, in their discussion of GDPR tools MailChimp say “MailChimp will also keep a record of what each version of your form says, so you’ll always know exactly which fields were present on a form when it was submitted by a contact, and you can prove consent if the need arises.” Maybe this applies to all of the fields on the form, or is it meant to apply specifically to the MailChimp “Marketing Permissions” data? I’m not sure. If it is the latter it is another argument for sticking with the MailChimp fields.
I have to say I find it distressing that MailChimp are apparently not planning to make this functionality available via the API. This could push a lot of people away from using third party signup forms. I would be sorry to feel forced in this direction myself, but currently I’m not sure what to do…
Forum: Plugins
In reply to: [Easy Forms for Mailchimp] Unable to re-subscribe a deleted subscriberHi Kevin,
Thanks once again – I’ll continue this by email as you suggest.
Mary
Forum: Plugins
In reply to: [Easy Forms for Mailchimp] Unable to re-subscribe a deleted subscriberHi,
Thanks for your quick and helpful response.
I just tried to re-subscribe the same email (having first checked that it was absent from the MC list) but received the same error message. So maybe your database caching is more persistent than 1 hour, or something else is going on.
Next, I used the same form to subscribe a different email address (but I’m running out of addresses I can access for testing). I wanted to see if changing to a different email address would “reset” anything and free things up.
The “new” subscriber went through OK (received a success message and a confirmation email), but returning after that to the “problem” email did not improve things, the “already subscribed” message still appeared.
If the cause of this is really the temporary caching in your database, I am not concerned about it because (as you say) a subscriber would be very unlikely to unsubscribe and then change their mind in a short space of time.
However I’m not sure yet that this is the explanation. I omitted to say that I first ran into this problem yesterday evening, and had to leave things overnight before checking again today and contacting you. So if caching is involved it appears to last for some hours.
(I have to say that I’m finding it difficult to imagine what else, other than your central caching, could be doing it – because the evidence seems to suggest that it doesn’t involve stored data at either the device end or the MC server end. I did wonder – speaking as a former programmer although not familiar with this software – if there might be a glitch involving an uninitialised variable somewhere. That was one reason for trying to push a different email address through the system to overwrite anything hanging around.)
But I’ll have to stop speculating and turn it back to you.
A further test that just occurred to me:
I tried to re-subscribe “email 2”, i.e. the new email that I subscribed successfully a few minutes ago. This second email address is now also coming up with the “already subscribed” message. The difference this time is that “email 2” received a confirmation email from MC but did not do anything with it and so was never added to the MC list.
This tends to confirm to me that the “already subscribed” information is held internally somewhere in your plugin system. What it is really saying is that the API sent a subscription request to MC and received a success message. (It isn’t saying that the user clicked on an email link and got added to the MC list.)
Apologies for the long post (I can get a bit pedantic sometimes). If I can assist with any further testing I’d be happy to do so.
Thanks,
MaryHi Danny,
Thanks very much for this information! (Including the [boxzilla-close] code. The reason I wanted to add a “close” link was that when the box is displayed on a smartphone, the normal “x” close option isn’t always visible.)
Re MailChimp forms:
I started out using MailChimp for WP but had a couple of issues with it, the more serious of which is that it was not transmitting checkbox (MailChimp Group) data. That’s why I began trying out the MailChimp embedded sign-up form instead.
I’m not completely happy with the latter either, because the html is so lengthy (one of my signup fields is a Country dropdown and the html has a line for every country), and I’m not aware of a shortcode for use instead.
So I’m currently experimenting with yet another plugin (Easy Forms for MailChimp), which has a shortcode and some other useful features. If this is successful I can ditch the MailChimp embedded sign-up form. Hopefully I can arrive at a solution that both works with MailChimp and integrates successfully with Boxzilla.
PS I have currently activated Boxzilla for you to look at…
Hi,
I’m using Boxzilla 3.1.16
I’ve currently got three boxes defined, one of which is actively referenced in the site. Here is the text in the three boxes:
1. Sample box, testing an embedded link to close the box:
Some sample text
Close this box2. Box to display test signup form for MailChimp for WP:
[xyz-ihs snippet=”Link-to-dismiss-current-Boxzilla-box”]
[mc4wp_form id=”223″]3. Box to display test signup form using MailChimp’s own form:
[xyz-ihs snippet=”Link-to-dismiss-current-Boxzilla-box”]
<!– Begin MailChimp Signup Form –>
… then a large amount of embedded html provided by MailChimpThe embedded MailChimp html is quite extensive, I could place it in a separate post below. Or better still, I would prefer to email it to you if needed as I don’t really want to publicise our email list details in this forum.
It is box (3) that is currently referenced on the site. It is called up via a sidebar text widget containing text:
[xyz-ihs snippet=”Show-box-for-MailChimp-signup”]I’m using the XYZ Html plugin because the WordPress 4.8.0 upgrade changed text widgets so that they stripped out Javascript calls in visual mode. The same thing happened when editing your boxes, hence the use of the snippet in the boxes to include the “close this box” link.
I see that WP 4.8.1 has introduced a new html widget, doubtless in response to the outcry after they changed text widgets. So I may be able to do away with the current “html snippet” complication, but this is my current setup.
The snippets referred to above contain:
Link-to-dismiss-current-Boxzilla-box:
Close this boxShow-box-for-MailChimp-signup:

Show-box-for-MailChimp4WP-signup:

Hope this is of some use. I’ve no time for more now but happy to give more information later. Thanks!
How very interesting. That doesn’t happen in my tests on iOS, the form just hides after tapping “sign up” with no validation messages.
(So it looks like the absence of validation message display is the real problem here?)
I am testing on my old iPad 2 (with up to date iOS) and on my iPhone with an old version of iOS. I’m not sure how to check JavaScript settings in Safari on these but will have a look.
However I’m quite certain that JavaScript is enabled, because I am using it in two places connected with display of the Boxzilla box to display the form from the sidebar:
(a) the box is displayed via a JavaScript call href=”javascript:Boxzilla.show(221);” inside an anchor. I was recommended to do this to avoid the box being redisplayed on a page reload as happens with the alternative href=”#boxzilla-221″ construction.
(b) I’ve included a link inside the Boxzilla box to dismiss the box, as an alternative to using the normal “x” close method. This is because the “x” doesn’t appear when the box is opened on the iPhone. The “Close this box” link is implemented via href=”javascript:Boxzilla.dismiss();”
The box display and the close link are both working in iOS so I assume JavaScript is alive and well…
Hi Harish,
It’s on a development website. Go to:
https://dev.friendshousemoscow.org/contact/
and the form is displayed (via the shortcode) in the “Keep in touch by email” section. I am testing just by tapping on “Sign up” without entering any data into the fields. This hides the form but refreshing the page brings up the “submit this form again?” message.I am also calling up the same form by a different method, via a “sign up” widget in the sidebar. This is a bit more complex, because the widget calls up a Boxzilla popup box containing the shortcode for the form. If you want to test this, try a different page e.g. “About Us”. The behaviour is the same. As already said, nothing like this happens in Windows (Firefox or Edge), it’s just on my iOS devices with Safari.
The website uses (a child theme of) the Charitas theme. I’m also using the Shortcodes Ultimate plugin on the Contact page, and the Insert HTML Snippet plugin in the sidebar widget. If you need details about the html text of the Contact page, or how the form is configured, please let me know.
Thanks,
MaryForum: Plugins
In reply to: [MC4WP: Mailchimp for WordPress] Oops error with an invalid email addressThanks for the information. Changing the generic message to say “Please check your input and try again” instead of “Please try again later” should be more helpful to the user. (It encourages them to look at what they typed, instead of assuming that “the system” isn’t working.)
Much obliged,
MaryForum: Plugins
In reply to: [Boxzilla - WordPress Popup Builder] Dismissed box reappears on page refreshHi again,
I’m adding another note to make readers aware of a new issue about using JavaScript.
I have been trying to put the box trigger using JavaScript into a text widget in a sidebar. This worked fine, but the code then disappeared when re-editing the widget. Unfortunately in the newly released WordPress version 4.8, the text widget has been modified so that the visual editor now strips out JavaScript (and other things) in the same way as happens when editing post content. Moreover, the widget now opens by default in visual mode so the code disappears before you know what’s happening. See this thread for a discussion of the problem:
https://core.trac.ww.wp.xz.cn/ticket/40951This is not entirely insurmountable (you need to edit the text widget in text mode and save it before going into visual mode), but the next time someone edits the widget it will open in visual mode and the code will be stripped again and lost. On a website where other people will be maintaining the site in future, without a knowledge of this problem, this is not an acceptable solution.
Apparently WordPress are promising a new “html widget” to use in place of the text widget, but not until release 4.8.1.
I am lucky in that I am building a new website and this was my only widget affected, and the fact that I was actively working on it alerted me to the problem. There may be many people out there who have old “tried and tested” code in text widgets that will be vulnerable in future (see above link).
Hope this information helps,
MaryForum: Plugins
In reply to: [Boxzilla - WordPress Popup Builder] Dismissed box reappears on page refreshHi Arne,
Yes problem solved – thanks very much!
Perhaps it might be worth adding a note to your knowledge base page about this difference in behaviour as a possible reason for using JavaScript..?
Mary